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Would eliminating land speculation reduce land value tax revenues? by Ortho-Apologia in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The main thing to keep in mind is the market price for land under the status quo is completely screwed up. The market is pricing a whole bunch of monopolistic effects and other inefficiencies, including speculation. I would estimate speculation is probably 30 percent of market price in high-value urban areas. If you introduced a significant LVT, then people would be less inclined to speculate on land, and market prices would fall. Of course, if you introduced a full LVT, the market price for land would go to zero.

But if the market price for land is zero, that does not mean the land is worthless; it simply means the private market for economic rents is eliminated, i.e. completely socialized by a 100 percent rate of taxation. This is why we have to recreate a public market to price land values using either an auction or assessment or some combination.

You might be tempted to think, well, if the market price drops 30 percent from eliminating speculation, and the 70 percent is representative of location value and improvements, then wouldn't the tax revenues from LVT be less?

The important thing to remember is LVT is not based on the market price of land. LVT is based on the opportunity cost of excluding others from the location (as determined by equal competition for access, in the form of a public auction or assessment). There is no point in trying to work out what revenues under LVT will be by extrapolating from current market prices, because revenues under LVT amount to the total socialization of location values, whereas, conversely, the market price equates to the private market for the right to own rents. The 'true value' of land and the market price are diametrically opposed in this regard, in that the market price expands when private monopoly in rents grows, whereas the true value of land to the community increases when monpoly is eliminated and access is increased. Higher market prices are good measure of the inequality in an economy, but are not nominally predictive of land's true value.

What would contribute to land's value under LVT? Well, on the demand side, you would have relatively static factors like the size of the population; the elasticity of labor in the jurisdiction; the degree of inequality at the point of transition; as well as more variable factors, like how much of the capital in the economy is invested in rent-seeking versus productive wealth, and the elastisticty of capital. On the supply side, well, whatever land is within your jursidiction is what you've got to work with. So what would be the effects of a full LVT? Well, if capital is not invested in rent-seeking, then it has to be invested instead in business and industry. Investing in business and industry instead of rents is the equivalent to raising labor and capital at the macro scale, raising the demand curve for land and thus the true value of land.

But this is all slightly besides the point: LVT is the only efficient tax system. It is not a meaningful exercise to try to speculate on what revenues would be by extrapolating from market prices today. There are just too many fundamental changes through ATCOR and EBCOR to draw a meaningful comparison; and, even then, comparing market price to land value is inopposite. The bottom line is LVT will allow us to raise the maximum amount of revenues and in a fair and equitable manner.

P.S. We're also eventually going after the money monopoly. What does it even mean to say land is worth XXX dollars, when dollars are now a form of debt? Even if markets weren't screwed up by individual monopolies, they are pricing everything in a form of debt that is itself a monopoly. Monopoception.

How do georgists view the monetization of people's data? by GrouchyPhotograph674 in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People inherently own their data (as an extension of their labor and human capital), so if you want to run an algo to make a profit on it, you should pay rent.

Separately, we are completely screwed unless we nationalize the big data race for artificial general intelligence. There are way too many public risks associated with a potential AGI/singleton to allow free market competition.

I'd encourage everyone to protect their data as much as possible, which generally means no social media (except reddit, of course), and no iOS or Android unless it's AOSP. There are a lot of open-source alternatives that are much safer in terms of security and privacy: Signal instead of Whatsapp, Minds instead of Facebook/Twitter etc. If you are building a business involving subversive speech, or a potentially deviant political movement, you have got to base it on open-source technologies, otherwise you can just get knocked out like Parler in a day, unless the big tech companies simply want to continue reading your thoughts.

A Hard Look at Rent and Rent Seeking with Michael Hudson & Pepe Escobar by MyriadCreature8 in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Prof. Hudson is correct that we don't have anything close to a mixed economy.

But I don't think their analysis of the CCP economy is correct, at all. There is no difference between American rent-seeking and CCP's 'communism' in actual practice, apart for the fact they have actual (state-owned) industry now. China is not resurgent because they are taxing their rentier class--give me a break--it's because they have 1b laborers and no rules. China is playing the same game as America, just better.

Interesting that Hudson identifies insurance along with land and finance as major monopolies.

LVT and environmentalism by HariboWoody1273 in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A severance tax could be set so high as to constitute a tax on improvements, but a severance tax can also be set at the value of the resources in the ground before any capital or labor is applied to extract them--the rent.

The general principle is to socialize all rents and eliminate all taxes on labor and capital. I don't think there's much of a difference when you're leving a tax on the surface location value and levying a tax on the rents under the earth if they are extraced.

LVT and environmentalism by HariboWoody1273 in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is consistent that neither location values nor natural resources are created by human labor or capital, and therefore are properly socialized under Lockean principles.

You can't see the shape of the culture clearly from inside it. by judojon in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My buddy averaged about 5 euros a month total spend for six months backpacking through Eastern Europe and living with people he met along the way. True story.

Huge thanks to businesses providing food for the homeless right now! You know who you are! by YaMomzBox420 in Portland

[–]Law_And_Politics -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

The premise you snuck in there is elephants is giving anything at all. If they want to advertise their charity, they can do so openly and let everyone know just how generous they are . . . but this ain't it.

Huge thanks to businesses providing food for the homeless right now! You know who you are! by YaMomzBox420 in Portland

[–]Law_And_Politics -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I don't believe you are living out of a van with your homeless mother. You could be employed, obviously. And probably are . . . by the company in this photograph; taken with your $1,000 apple device. Either you are too fucking stupid to realize you can't bullshit everyone or you're too fucking stupid to have $900 dollars more of phone more than me while living on the street.

Welcome to the internet, where people will call you on your bullshit. Do you have any relationship Elephants Delicatassen? You're eating $85 worth of food from 2/3 places. None of this believable, at all, and everything in your new account history is contra.

Did you award yourself from an alt account?

Huge thanks to businesses providing food for the homeless right now! You know who you are! by YaMomzBox420 in Portland

[–]Law_And_Politics -23 points-22 points  (0 children)

In case you have not realized, OP is not homeless. Either they are eating the food for the homeless, or their pack lunch, or are just posing for the company for some reason while inside a homeless shelter.

Check OP's post history . . . programming and rockets (viz. definitely not homeless). I mean, 21 minutes ago he's talking about orbital mechanics . . . give me a fucking break.

Wing of airplane is on fire by butter_mint in PublicFreakout

[–]Law_And_Politics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to be a special type of stupid to still be in your window seat watching the flames.

Woman terrified of weed while partner pushes her to keep going by BBC-only-NoWhiteBoys in PublicFreakout

[–]Law_And_Politics 102 points103 points  (0 children)

Bachlor's tip: don't marry anyone you have not seen perform under real pressure.

Donald Jr ranting about his father's impeachment. by itsreallyreallytrue in PublicFreakout

[–]Law_And_Politics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude sounds like he literally can't breathe through his nose anymore.

Is land tax levied in two dimensions or three? by SevenBall in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 2 points3 points  (0 children)

. . . you know it.

FYI still waiting to hear back from one of the team, so will let you know when everyone's had their word.

Is land tax levied in two dimensions or three? by SevenBall in georgism

[–]Law_And_Politics 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Technically, three dimensions, as you are liable for the opportunity cost of excluding others from any area, whether it is at the center of the Earth, or the surface, or up to space. Since most land is used for its surface, and there would also be a severance tax for the value of the natural resources in the Earth, the burden of the tax in effect is based on two dimensions for most sites.